Tested the game with a couple of friends, did a couple of quick fights and erased a Lightweight 3-bar boss in a single action (Ten Thousand Gunkata Style + One-Two Form with 10 power tokens). It was cool and hilarious, exactly the vibe we want out of a game like this, but we were also sitting around with our jaws on the table for a bit.
The power tokens are the thing we're wondering about - I set it up with Training Teacher Style + Song Form, and it seems like Training tokens (or Take Aim from Crosshair) would boost a lot more things in Sing Along than seems intended? To run through it, with all the variables in bold caps:
1+ or 4+ or 6+: Sing Along
Choose ONE ally you can see. Choose ONE: They remove ONE token they hold; they heal; or they gain TWO tokens from your song.
4+: They also choose ONE from the list.
6+: Add a 4 to their Action Pool. They must immediately spend it on an Action.
With just one of Training or Take Aim, you spread the move to two allies, each of them gets two picks from the basic list - and both the token options are buffed too! - and you give both of them a free instant off-turn 5 action. With both a Training token and Take Aim (both of which should stack in either order, because Training a Take Aim would increase the cost and all values of the next action by +2 anyway), you can target three people, who take all three actions on the list twice and then get a 6 action (and if you target yourself, you can also then use the 6 for *another* maxed Sing Along on a single ally). If you roll well, you can do this twice on a turn in Crosshair Song or Training Song, which is what I did to generate 10 tokens for two allies in a single round of prep.
It was incredibly fun and satisfying, but also felt unintentionally powerful? I'm wondering if there's something about it we overlooked or if it's going to get addressed in the errata, or if it's just an explosive payoff for spending a turn (and a good roll, since it costs at least a 3 and a 5 to stack tokens or a 7 for the free action) on fully selfless support for a more aggressive ally.
Edit for context: it did also take specifically a rate-of-fire character to spend those tokens over multiple attacks, and it was a Lightweight 9x3 boss and he had to plan out which attack would happen when to keep her in range and not waste damage, so it wasn't exactly a win button even still, but, again, jaws dropped for a little bit.
Yeah I think this is mostly a good reward for throwing a LOT behind one ally and having two other characters be in Support stances; you have one character who has to be in Training + ? and another who has to have Crosshair Song.
Then, you're spending two actions (most likely Watch Closely and something off the given Form) to hand Crosshair Song a Training Token, and Crosshair Song needs to either be Fused Wardancer, or have a SPECTACULAR roll.
It's 4 actions across two turns-- which allows the enemy forces to respond-- and demands either good rolls, or (for more consistency) a Fused or Frantic Wardancer in Crosshair Song.
Hell to pull off-- it's VERY swingy. At base, it only works 1/3 of the time; a Fused Wardancer Gunkata can do it 3/4 times and a Frantic Wardancer Crosshair Song turn (good GOD) can even then only pull it off 7 times out of 8.
But when you're talking about Fused Wardancer Gunkata and Frantic Wardancer Crosshair Song you're literally building a character to do this, so, like, yeah, I sure hope you can, because this is a character who has spent a Stance and an Archetype to do just this one thing and will likely eat entire enemy turns without real recourse in any weight class that can withstand that kind of power.
ETA: There's ONE other problem with this. Like with other Token removal or discard options, you HAVE to remove that many. This means you can get through the bad token options and be left with the Basic Tokens you want to keep around!
ETA*2: Also, if that Boss had Armor you would not have been able to do that. Note that you can only spend one Power per hit unless you're in Power. in addition, anything that gains Iron off instances of damage (Underdogs, Taunting Style) would have an easier time.
ETA*3: and I completely m issed that it's going to be changed in any case. Whoops!
I bought the book after reading about it on a FB RPG group. Where can I download a character sheet to record all the info for my character ? That would be great to have one
Potential Errata/FAQ Quandary: If a Wardancer takes Forbidden: Iron/Power. And spends a die to gain speed tokens. How would they translate? My assumption: Half become iron, the rest become power, round up for one. (so a 5 would give 3 iron, 2 power) Possibly: round off both (so a 5 would give 3 iron, 3 power) Hope not: They both take the same majority half (5 gives 3 iron, 3 power, 2 speed)
Hello! Discovered this wonderful system recently, and began theorycrafting characters immediately!
I ran into a seeming contradiction between the rules and the advice, and wondered if you could help me with it?
So I was looking at making a Winterblossom fighter, and was considering Frozen Style. The advice there calls out Frozen Dance as a good combination - and thematically that seems great!
But then I read the rules on Grapple and Pull again, and from my read of them Frozen Dance is actually a terrible combo! I can't help but feel I'm likely missing or else misunderstanding something.
So Pull effects (in this case, both the Basic Grapple Action and the Pull added to Free Movement by Dance Form) are described on pg 9 as "each movement must bring them to a space closer to you".
The problem? Frozen Style has a Range of 1! So if someone is in Range, they can't get any closer, so I can't actually Pull them.
Based on the fact that you specifically reccomended Frozen Dance as a good combo, I feel like I must be missing or misunderstanding somewhere. Can you enlighten me? Thanks!
EDIT: Found a comment you made previously where you clarified that a Pull can move someone adjacent to you to another adjacent space, which is great for that part of Dance Form! I'm still confused as to whether the Pull resulting from Free Movement is wasted if I move out of adjacency with someone, however. Do I need to use this "adjacent pull" to keep them next to me for the entire process if I wish to dance my dance of weakness tokens, or can I actually drag them across the map? Thanks again!
You need to remain adjacent to them the entire time for your dance of weakness, yes. It is a little complicated but you can still drag them quite far - you don't have to pull them adjacent to you in the same direction you moved, so the two of you can swap sides as you cross the map together.
So counter attack from Reversal form. Does that mean you teleport to a enemy that attacked you regardless of distance but you have to place yourself within your stance range of them when you do teleport, or does it mean you can only teleport if that enemy is within your range first?
The first thing you said. It doesn't matter where they were when they hit you, it can still be triggered. Then, you teleport to any open space that will place your attacker within your Range
Since you're answering questions, I was wondering: does the Fused Flametongue ability only trigger once per turn, or is it once per turn per enemy? The ability could be read either way, and I'm not quite sure which one is the intent.
Update, I have started my first fight. Not very many turns in yet but I and one other player agree that this is one of the best combat systems we've touched. It's simple but very interactive and fun.
This is such a quick game to set up and play that it's become a big hit, and as a result I've been getting a match in just about every night. I've ran enough fights at this point that my players and I are finding the balance we like, but there are still things we aren't sure about.
In Zen stance. When you gain a new shield and choose to replace your current shield, does it go into reserve, or do you discard it? The level 7 Zen ability gives you a 2 shield, then a 4. Half my players think that means you take the 2 and keep the 4 in reserve, or you willingly give up your 2 to have the 4 active immediately. the other think it means you can replace the 2 with the 4 and put the 2 in reserve.
Are teachers able to spend Inspired tokens on themselves if they hoard them till their next turn?
Do copies replace fog tokens and vice versa? We've been playing it that copies/walls/traps can't normally exist together, but that fog can exist on anything.
This is more of a balance observation with a related question. Vigilance Form is really good. A heal or token drop, a 1+-4+ for weakness tokens, and a 1+-4+ line of sight heal has made it probably the most disruptive form in our group. We've been talking about different ways to tone it down, including limiting the heal to range, having fog block line of sight to friendlies, or making it a smaller heal, like a flat 1 or 2. I was curious if you find it to be that strong in your games, and if so, what you might propose. Or, if maybe there is something obvious we might be missing.
And finally, my second and last balance thought. Wild style is hard to use on bosses. At a glance I thought it would let them sneak in extra turns for healing themselves or spreading around damage. In practice it doesn't trigger extra dice very often, and when it does it can't quite seem to make up the difference in damage, healing, or action economy other forms manage. The group has proposed having bosses gain the bonus dice differently, with 1d6 after their first health bar is gone, and an additional 1d6 after half or more of their health bars are gone, with the bonus die for special tokens remaining unchanged. I'm curious for your thoughts here as well. Do you find solo bosses should avoid Wild form? Do you have a fix you prefer?
If you replace your current shield with a new one while in Zen Form, the replaced shield goes in reserve. Zen Form never discards shields except by breaking them (or using them to pay for an action) or by changing off of Zen Form.
Teachers can inspire any ally, so yes, if they still have the tokens when their turn comes back around, they can use it on themselves.
In the current rules, yes, placing any other obstacle will override a copy or fog in that space. In the upcoming errata, Copies are treated much more like players, and can be on top of Rubble or Fog without issue. I didn't have a note for Fog, but no reason I can't add one - Fog should be allowed on top of Copies, Traps, or Rubble without issue.
Vigilance's Actions are getting a cost increase. I doubt it will stop being strong, but it will be less free.
I do have a fix for Wild Form actually. I found the ability inconsistent in practice, so I've changed two things about it: One, it does something other than give bonus action dice. It's small but useful - at the start of your turn you gain 1 of each Basic token. Two, it has 5 conditions that can be met to give bonus dice, although it can only give +3d6 even if you meet 4 or all 5 of them.
Makes sense thanks for the fast response though i do have another question if i activate follow my lead from my copy can i then follow my own lead as i am an ally?
So quick questions. Do you count as a valid target for your own abilities that target "Ally"? I imagine not since you have the "someone" version on other abilities.
And does Challenge stop you from using abilities that do things to yourself? Like are you unable to use Yell to gain power tokens or any other albitites that affect you yourself but not the enemy. Because I feel like me and my friend group may have massively misunderstood Challenge and made it more powerful than it actually is.
Oh and something else I thought up. Does Mastermind style bypass Challenge since you yourself can not preform actions and instead use your dice to make other people take actions for you?
1: Already answered, but you are your own ally. No benefit to targeting yourself with a pull or a push, but for giving tokens or healing, yes.
2: In the current version of the rules, any action with targets must include your Challenger. So, you can Yell, since Yell has no targets, but you couldn't use Stand Strong to heal yourself, because it does have targets and could target your Challenger.
In the upcoming errata, Challenge tokens' effects are changed to "All damage-dealing actions you perform must include your Challenger as a target", so actions like Stand Strong are unaffected by holding a Challenge token.
3: Yeah, you don't target anyone while in Mastermind style. You just walk around and shout orders. However, if an ally you control has a challenge token, you will need to consider that for the Action you make them do.
2. In the current rules (and it appears this wouldn't be so with future updates) are you able to "Put It Out" to remove a challenge token from yourself, since it doesn't target the enemy? I would think no and am unsure where to confirm this.
It also sounds as if the new erreta wouldn't cause this confusion. Just playing a support, and currently it seems like I can't use Song form properly if challenged and I must go aggro.
Additionally, is there a discord or anywhere else questions can be asked? I am super curious and would love to pick the minds of people who have the authority to rule over the system, or at least politely ask questions.
I'm going to pivot a bit from Aetherbard's question - in the upcoming errata, would you be able to remove Challenge tokens with Put It Out (either on yourself or an ally)? It feels like turning Challenge from a turn of tanking into a one-action tax is stronger than intended, since Challenge tokens can't stack in any way - an action tax is very strong, but still totally different mechanically from what an Angel, Reversal, or Zen stance might want - but at the same time, even in the current version Put It Out would be able to calm an ally down from a Challenge token.
This game looks amazing and I totally wanna give it a try. Question though, I know it says 3-5 players. Would the rules still work for 1 player and 1 DM?
I'm relatively certain the game is balanced for the player side and enemy side to have an equal number of health bars. So, for example, if one player is up against two enemies, the player gets two bars while each enemy gets one. This would also give the player two turns per round.
The numbers you hold would empty at the end of the turn, and you change stance at the start of the turn. So, any spare numbers from Reversal Form will linger on to be used in your next Stance. They are kept.
This game is super cool, and i'm really excited to run it with my group. I've got a few questions about stuff tho before i start, i dont wanna make any big mistakes.
Do chaos tokens need to be used on skills that equal exactly 4? if so, why is Ogre the odd demon out with no guaranteed way to use their chaos token?
Also, with the Bomb enemy type, it's listed that they're extremely dangerous, but I don't see how apply pressure is that strong of a blow-up move, the 1 weakness tokens the bombs apply at the start of their turns would go away the second the players connect with a hit right? Does the gm just need to hope the players mess up and stock themselves up with iron and power tokens?
Chaos tokens function as a 4 in your dice pool, so they can still be used for 1+, 2+, and 3+ actions, too, not just 4+. Ogre is intended to use this 4 on a Throw or Grapple, but can also use it on Watch Your Step just fine.
The Bomb's Reversal Form lets them take their Actions at any time. If a player in range EVER builds up tokens to do something, like a bunch of Speed tokens to run around, a bunch of Iron to block with, or a bunch of Power for a deadly crush, a Bomb can instantly punish them with an explosive Apply Pressure.
Alternatively, pair the bomb alongside a Flametongue or other Winter stance to really shove tokens on everyone for you. They're a Stooge, they are not meant to be used by themselves.
I've been having a lot of fun playing this game. Great job on this, it really is very cool. Below are some of the questions we've had at the table that we weren't quite able to suss out on our own:
The rules for traps contradict one another, with one version saying trap damage is triggered at the start of every turn, and another that it triggers at the end. Which should we use? If the former, would it happen before you pick your new stance?
Does armor apply to trap damage? If so does it apply to both instances of stepping into a trap, and lingering on a trap? Can Iron Tokens be spent on trap damage? There is a note about this under Volcanic, but I can't tell if that's a specific edge case or not.
There's a note under Puppet's Style about being able to spend actions to gain speed tokens if you are walked off of an edge at the start of your turn. Is that a special exception to how Puppet's Style works, or a more general rule that you can always spend actions on your turn to gain speed tokens and avoid falls? If the latter, does that mean someone in a Patient/Reversal stance can do the same off turn with their one action? And in a related question, could you use an action to save someone else from going over an edge with a pull mechanic if you have an action handy? The former seems like it might be specific to Puppet's, but the latter we've been back and forth about in my group.
When a character with Wild Form is Taken Out, do they get their extra dice while rolling up numbers for another player using the Heroic Spirit rule? Under Judgment Style it states that abilities turn off while unconscious, so we were unsure.
Can Volcanic Dancer generate a bunch of speed tokens, then just zoom across the field creating a line of fire behind them and dragging a person through it for tons of trap damage? We ruled yes, but this one also brought up the question of whether armor should protect universally from trap damage. We had been playing that it didn't up until then, when Volcanic Dancer was turning numbers on the die into 1 to 1 speed tokens, that were then 1 to 1 damage.
(Edited to add one more)
Trickster style allows you to spend any basic tokens as iron tokens. Does that include for paying the token cost of abilities, or only for reducing damage? Does the focused version of the Trickster ability let you spend tokens like Burning and Weak to do the same?
1: Trap damage is supposed to be End of Turn or when you are moved into it. I will try to find and remove wherever it states Start of Turn instead.
2: Armor blocks 1 damage from all damage sources, including Traps. Iron tokens can be spent on any damage source, up to 2 tokens per source, so yes they can reduce Trap damage.
3: It is a general rule that if you have Speed tokens, you can spend them to escape an Edge you are moved onto. It is a specific note in Puppet Style because Puppet Shadow and Puppet Reversal are one of the few ways to move someone off an edge at the start of their own turn, before they can take any Actions. So, I added the clause that they can immediately spend an action die to use the Basic Action Movement to gain the Speed tokens needed to escape, because otherwise this is an extremely cheesy way to get a ringout. lt happens after they roll their action dice and after they had missed the chance to pass them off with Heroic Spirit, but before they could spend them to do anything, so it was a turn skip combo.
4: Yes, Wild Form is excellent for passing along Heroic Spirit for this reason. Abilities you apply to OTHERS deactivate while you are Taken Out, but still apply to yourself - this is how Vigilance Form can wake you back up from zero HP.
5: Volcanic Dance can indeed deal a ton of damage by dragging someone behind you, although there are two important things to note: first, Iron tokens can stop any forced movement, even Dance's pull, and second, Traps can only deal damage once per turn, so you need to only drag them through new Traps each time. Also, Armor negates this strategy entirely, as mentioned above.
6: The Trickster abilities can be used to pay for Iron token actions, yes. And yes , a Focused Trickster can spend Burning or Weakness tokens to block attacks or to pay for Iron token actions.
Dance form seems odd. It allows you to pull people 1 space if they are in range, does that mean you can pull adjacent targets into another adjacent space or does this ability only work if you have range of at least 2? Frozen style has range 1, bit has a tip to pair with dance to grapple enemies to you. Grapple targets someone in range and the rules for pulling states "... each space must be closer to you than the previous." so grappling/pulling is impossible at range 1.
Oh, this is good to know! I built a character with Frozen Dance, but I was under the impression the idea was that you could interrupt each step of the Pull using Free Movement to effectively drag the target behind you. This interpretation makes a lot more sense, though.
That's the one- when I first read through the book, I used that page for reference and missed the outside-archetype Style until it was pointed out to me elsewhere.
Hi! I was prepping for a test game of this with some folks who are interested in trying out PATD and as I was looking through the premade bosses I had a question. Where is the nonstandard range on Hollow Queen's Vampire Drill Stance coming from? As far as I can tell, Vampire style is range 1 and One-Two form doesn't seem to change range at all. Is there some other source that's moving that from range 1 to range 2-5 that I'm missing?
Does Armor stack? Iron form has different rules for iron token. It says you can reduce movement by 1 per token, and doesn't state the 2 token limit per hit.
Some actions do not specify "With in range" such as Irons Contain Pulling choice and Rally's group up. These actions almost imply that they would effect targets you can see, as Rally doesnt work well without control and Iron can't pull unless it has greater than range one. However under Target rules it states "Targets must be within Range, unless stated otherwise."
Armor does not stack, you either have it or you do not.
Iron Tokens reduce both damage and forced movement, and they have the 2 token limit per hit. If the reminder text under Iron Form differs from that, use these values instead, and I'll fix it in the patch notes.
That is an oversight, both of those examples should be "you can see"
No, Stooges are exceptionally vulnerable to area attacks. Each Stooge is a valid target, so if you hit 3 with a shockwave, they lose 3 HP from their shared health bar.
ayo, just came across this thanks to the sugarpunch video. can't wait to buy it but in the mean time I've been working on a TTS mod for me and my friends to play. I really hope this game blows up!!!
Part of me is curious about Focused Phantom or the Teacher Elder style. Do they still have access to all of the other stances when there are more than three stances? (I admit I am foolishly trying to prepare the character sheets I am building for Foundry for material that is still in development. I take full responsibility for this hubris)
hello there, just like everyone else I came from SugerPunch video. I gonna get the game soon but I have a question. I know from other reviews there isn't a character advancement per say. but is there any way I could hack some kind advancement system into the game?
If you scroll down a bit, there is a post from liberigothica that includes an image that has a preliminary advancement system in the works. The message is from a year ago so you might have to scroll for a little bit.
I had a question concerning frantic wardancer with the wild style. I have thought of a few ways that wild style using two forms might work, but I wanted confirmation (and if it is something else entirely, please let me know). 1. You still only pick three forms at character creation, but when you use wild style, you use two of them. 2. You pick four forms at character creation, but two of them are paired and always used with wild style. 3. You pick four forms at character creation, and you can chose any two when you are using wild style.
The version in the book uses option 1, but I do have that in the upcoming errata as:
When you pick Forbidden Style on a Frantic character, choose one Form. That Form is always attached to Forbidden Style, along with a second Form chosen when you make your stance during your turn.
Thank you! I am working on building a functional character sheet in Foundry for some friends and I to use for online sessions (drop down menus for selecting things, fields auto populating with relevent info, etc). I am being meticulous and trying to include all of the niche cases like Phantom and Forbidden style.
I hope to be able to share the sheets on Foundry once I am done for others to use.
This is an awesome game, but one infinite I spotted was Frantic Phantom, One-Two maybe Blaster form, Brawling Style, and Flamethrower from Incinerator. Only works if they're against a wall, but still. Would appreciate if it was in the Errata.
Thank you for letting me know! This is the second (possibly third) infinite that's been found with Frantic Phantom, actually, so I already had an errata for it:
Once during this turn, you can use any Unique Action you know, from among all your Styles and Forms. You must still pay its Cost.
Your Unique Actions have their cost reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1+ or 2 tokens) during this turn.
As so many have said before me: This game is incredible! As a Magic player, I get the same feeling I get from deck building, as a TTRPG! Hosting games soon =)
To add to the Infinite topic: Fused Phantom + Elder Style + Song Form can Sing Along to give itself a 4 Action Die, and loop the song for infinite Basic Tokens for themselves and their team.
Just like in MtG, cost reductions can be abused, haha!
Hi, this game looks awesome (discovered via Sugarpunch video)! Do you intend to release an errata-ed/updated version? If I buy the game now, and there's an update in the future, do I get the update for free or do I have to buy again the updated version?
Hi, I was wondering if there was a discord or forum or something to ask questions about the system. A friend and I tried a quick sample fight, and his character was using the Focused Phantom Archetype. With it he had a Vortex Power stance and a Puppet Control stance, and it seems like you can, on turn 1, simply set up a Black Hole and instantly ring out someone by using Pull the Strings to move them into the "Edge" created by Black Hole. Is this correct or does the opponent get a turn to be allowed to use Speed tokens to get out of the Black Hole?
In a 1v1 scenario, I'd give both sides the Big Boss Comeback rule, regardless of whether they're actual Bosses or players, in which case they are removed from play temporarily, but not Taken Out.
In a 2v2 scenario and above, the target is immediately dunked into the Edge and Taken Out, but their allies may Rescue them to get them out on the following player turn, benefit from Heroic Spirit so their turn isn't wasted, etc.
I haven't played much with Edge-based styles, so I can't tell you more.
No, the rules are incredibly light on the roleplaying side; so it would be relatively easy to run solod brawler matches, though you'd need to create a deck or tactical rules for the goons you brawl against. Elsewise it'll feel like you're playing training mode in a tournament fighter.
Saw the youtuber SugarPunch talk about this, and half way in I was sold. This system just seemed way to perfect to not get, i'll be running it before too long with friends of mine.
Given the games general lack of artwork I went for a paperback, hope you're getting fun out of it - my houserule: for Combat - Have a 'turn zero' where in initiative order players add their characters to the grid and choose an opening stance. I think of it like the opening footsies in capcom fighters where players can move but not attack during "ROUND...1..."
Yo! Glad to see the game getting more attention (and looking forwards to the errata pass!).
Our group had a couple of assorted rule questions and comments after play- we made spot calls as needed, but we wanted to raise them as concerns/questions for errata;
1. Question about whether 0 damage counts as damage (answered below).
2. Can you spend any number of iron tokens on one hit (suggested by Armored Style, page 69), or just 1-2 (Glossary, page 280)?
3. How does 'priority' work? If someone wants to take an action during someone else's turn (ex. a token action), can they take as many token actions as they like before that person can take a Simple Action or use Free Movement? Can the person who's turn it is interrupt with their own token action? We generally settled on 'one side has a chance to take an action, then the other side has a chance to take an action'.
4. If a Copy moves into a space with an obstacle (particularly a Trap) using movement, what happens? Do they just coexist?
5. How do actions with an X in their cost interact with cost reduction (Elder, Phantom)? Can we treat them as a 'tiered action' with effectively infinite tiers (one for each possible die roll? Edit: Looked at Waiting Game- I'm going to guess they aren't affected by cost reduction, lol
6. This is a really goofy edge case, but a player actually did this- if someone takes Forbidden Power/Iron can they just not move? Is it split 50%/25%/25%? Our GM ruled that every 2 Speed Tokens effectively generated 1 Power and 1 Iron and 1 Speed (they were quite strong in combat, but it felt pretty fair overall- we had a strong party)
7. Play feedback- Necromancer making copies anywhere in line of sight felt like it could have very easily been overwhelming in combination with a mobile foe due to giving it effectively infinite range- the damage was low impact compared to the ability of the Boss to summon a copy at the start of their turn and then menace us at long range 'for free'. This might be working as intended, but it doesn't feel like the horde playstyle suggested by Necromancer.
8. When a character has a Copy take an action, my understanding is that this means 'you are taking the action, but from the position of the Copy', e.g. the player could, for example, spend Power tokens on behalf of the Copy, or discard their Challenge token if the Copy's action dealt damage to your Challenge target- is this correct?
9. Can you hit a single Mook foe multiple times with stuff like a 3+ Shockwave or Whirlwind if they have multiple bodes in range?
10. Play feedback- Challenge tokens are crazy impactful, and can virtually shut down Song Warriors, which may be completely unable to break through defensive walls or even get in range quickly. Fun, but felt on the edge of being an OP mechanic, with certain builds and situations making it nearly impossible to take any action- when everyone's challenged by one Bring It On!, nobody can even Put It Out! to clear a challenge.
Hello! Picked up Panic at the Dojo after hearing about it via, of course, OSP. Glad to have found your work.
It seems right up my alley, and well-designed: lots of opportunity for interesting decisionmaking in fights and while building a character; and a clean and clear approach to framing those fights. Almost feels like a board game, especially with how symmetrically fights are designed. Several of my friends are also interested, so I may actually get to run the game!
So, caveat that I've read through but not played it yet, I have some questions of intent/clarification:
1. Song Form's details says that you are always your own ally; does this hold everywhere? e.g. can a Teacher can use Inspired tokens and '3+: Watch Closely' on themselves?
2. When Phantom or Elder Style reduces the cost of an action, does that include reducing the cost of gates beyond the first (e.g. would Sing Along be reduced from '1+ or 4+ or 6+' to '1+ or 3+ or 5+'?
3. When you Sing Along without being in Song Form (e.g. via Focused Phantom or Elder Style), you don't have a song token type selected. Is the intent that you simply can't pick the 'gain 2 tokens' mode, or something else?
4. Are Chaos tokens intended to be usable for any action (i.e. as an action pool '4'), or specifically for actions with a cost or gate of exactly '4+' (and no lower)?
5. If something like a Chaos token ("used exclusively by the X") is stolen (e.g. via Syphon Style's '2+ or 6+: Power Converter'), can the recipient use it for its native function?
6. Can a Teacher use multiple Inspired tokens in the same turn?
There's also a few things I've spotted that may be infinite loops; either I've misread something, or they would be good targets for errata:
- Fused or Frantic Phantom + Song Form + Elder Style
If Phantom and Elder Style's cost reductions stack, that would mean the free 4 action from Sing Along would be enough to meet the 6+ gate of another Sing Along, repeating the process and accumulating resources.
- Chaos token + Motivating Style's '4+ You Can Do It!'
If you copy a chaos token, you can use You Can Do It again by expending that chaos token, healing/moving/etc. as you repeat the process. If you can't target yourself, this can still be done with two characters that are fused Demon/Teachers. Inspired tokens could work similarly, but are less egregious since it isn't guaranteed.
- Frantic Phantom + Blaster Form + Vampire Style, using Flare
Distracting Style's '1+ or 2 basic tokens: Flare' can give two enemies a weakness token while using Blaster Form; if you're also using Vampire Style, that would give you two power tokens if I'm reading correctly, which can repeat the process to give those enemies an unlimited number of weakness tokens.
I do really love this system, already; that's why I'm engaging with it so much. Thank you for making it :)
While not an infinite exactly, Brawling Zen is tremendously difficult to take down except by specific approaches.
When your shield is broken by damage from a foe, you gain one Power token from Brawling, then Zen deals 1 damage back to them. If you don't spend Power tokens on this hit, you gain a second Power token, meaning you can immediately put up a new shield with Tough It Out, arguably before the next damage action comes in.
Traps, Crush, and Armor/Iron tokens can counter this to some extent, but it's pretty difficult to break otherwise.
With a bit of setup (an ally with Dance, the Found an Opening bonus, or access to Chaos tokens), a Frantic Phantom with access to Patient style can gain access to Waiting Game outside their turn without being restricted by Patient's 'one action per turn' limit, letting them take it an unlimited number of times before cashing it out as one big infinite-power action (useful for, ex. Movement to generate infinite Speed for some sort of token action).
Edit: Missed that shield damage does overflow to HP! Whoops!
Brawling Zen can rebuild its Shields as they break. While inactive Shields don't normally become active until the end of the turn, you can use Tough It Out after your active Shield breaks to immediately have a new active Shield.
So, asking for clarification, does the 'default bonus' mean that everyone in the team gets +2 max HP, and this can be replaced with only one person getting one of the other bonuses?
I like it! Reads as sensible and appropriately simple and elegant.
First things that jump to mind:
Focused Phantoms get a *lot* of options when they get a fused archetype; including Waiting Game, which breaks when you can get it without the restrictions imposed by Patient Style, Elder Style, or Frantic Phantom.
Focused or Frantic Phantoms will generally scale extremely well with extra stances.
Frantic heroes' expanding combinatorial versatility is offset by not getting as many archetype abilities at once, which I find very elegant.
A lot of potent combos using the extra archetype (e.g. Focused Punk + Fused Winterblossom) are things that a cooperating party would already be able to do, which helps control the scope of things.
Does 0 damage count as damage? One-Two saying you can use it to clear 6 Weakness tokens suggests yes, but Knockdown Style suggests that reducing damage to 0 with Armor and Iron means it doesn't count as damage.
0 damage does not count as "damage," no. One-Two is going to have a written in exception in the errata I am working on, something like: "When you deal damage to an enemy with an Action, hit them again for 1 more damage. Even if the initial damage is reduced to zero by Armor, Iron tokens, or Weakness tokens, you still get this extra 1-damage hit."
My play group is starting to get into the game, and there is a weird rule I cant wrap my brain around. If you are Taken out, do you still get to change stances when it comes time for your heroic spirit turn? It seems weird that you could swap into bleeding/ Zombie and just negate threat by damage that way.
Even more so when something like Angel/ Cavalry doesn't have access to that .
Is there some kind of vulnerability I am not seeing here?
Yes, you do get to change stances (second paragraph, page 31). Of note is that the Vigilance stance heals itself at the start of its turn, meaning that all archetypes can spec into the ability to stand themself back up.
A special note for Angel- as mentioned on page 61, the Angel Ability lets them get back up even when damaged, since it heals them.
The primary counter, as I see it, is to avoid focusing damage on foes who will just regenerate off your damage, or by 'wasting' their healing by only dealing small amounts of damage to them - you win by getting everyone to 0 HP, in whichever order that involves.
I ran a session today, and I had a lot of trouble with Stooges- mainly, how start-of-turn effects work with them, and how tokens are shared- I had a group of Zombies and a The Light (angel/song warrior); I couldn't tell whether the Zombies each generated Iron tokens from their build, gained one token for one of them, etc. A similar question came up for The Light's start-of-turn ability to grant tokens to all allies at once.
Stooges hold tokens as a single unit. An effect that gives 1 Iron token to all allies would only give one Iron token to each separate group of Zombies. They have just the one token pile and any Zombie in the unit may spend tokens from that pile.
← Return to game
Comments
Log in with itch.io to leave a comment.
Tested the game with a couple of friends, did a couple of quick fights and erased a Lightweight 3-bar boss in a single action (Ten Thousand Gunkata Style + One-Two Form with 10 power tokens). It was cool and hilarious, exactly the vibe we want out of a game like this, but we were also sitting around with our jaws on the table for a bit.
The power tokens are the thing we're wondering about - I set it up with Training Teacher Style + Song Form, and it seems like Training tokens (or Take Aim from Crosshair) would boost a lot more things in Sing Along than seems intended? To run through it, with all the variables in bold caps:
1+ or 4+ or 6+: Sing Along
Choose ONE ally you can see. Choose ONE: They remove ONE token they hold; they heal; or they gain TWO tokens from your song.
4+: They also choose ONE from the list.
6+: Add a 4 to their Action Pool. They must immediately spend it on an Action.
With just one of Training or Take Aim, you spread the move to two allies, each of them gets two picks from the basic list - and both the token options are buffed too! - and you give both of them a free instant off-turn 5 action. With both a Training token and Take Aim (both of which should stack in either order, because Training a Take Aim would increase the cost and all values of the next action by +2 anyway), you can target three people, who take all three actions on the list twice and then get a 6 action (and if you target yourself, you can also then use the 6 for *another* maxed Sing Along on a single ally). If you roll well, you can do this twice on a turn in Crosshair Song or Training Song, which is what I did to generate 10 tokens for two allies in a single round of prep.
It was incredibly fun and satisfying, but also felt unintentionally powerful? I'm wondering if there's something about it we overlooked or if it's going to get addressed in the errata, or if it's just an explosive payoff for spending a turn (and a good roll, since it costs at least a 3 and a 5 to stack tokens or a 7 for the free action) on fully selfless support for a more aggressive ally.
Edit for context: it did also take specifically a rate-of-fire character to spend those tokens over multiple attacks, and it was a Lightweight 9x3 boss and he had to plan out which attack would happen when to keep her in range and not waste damage, so it wasn't exactly a win button even still, but, again, jaws dropped for a little bit.
It's getting addressed in the errata- it's getting changed to 'an' ally, rather than 'one' ally, IIRC.
Yeah I think this is mostly a good reward for throwing a LOT behind one ally and having two other characters be in Support stances; you have one character who has to be in Training + ? and another who has to have Crosshair Song.
Then, you're spending two actions (most likely Watch Closely and something off the given Form) to hand Crosshair Song a Training Token, and Crosshair Song needs to either be Fused Wardancer, or have a SPECTACULAR roll.
It's 4 actions across two turns-- which allows the enemy forces to respond-- and demands either good rolls, or (for more consistency) a Fused or Frantic Wardancer in Crosshair Song.
Hell to pull off-- it's VERY swingy. At base, it only works 1/3 of the time; a Fused Wardancer Gunkata can do it 3/4 times and a Frantic Wardancer Crosshair Song turn (good GOD) can even then only pull it off 7 times out of 8.
But when you're talking about Fused Wardancer Gunkata and Frantic Wardancer Crosshair Song you're literally building a character to do this, so, like, yeah, I sure hope you can, because this is a character who has spent a Stance and an Archetype to do just this one thing and will likely eat entire enemy turns without real recourse in any weight class that can withstand that kind of power.
ETA: There's ONE other problem with this. Like with other Token removal or discard options, you HAVE to remove that many. This means you can get through the bad token options and be left with the Basic Tokens you want to keep around!
ETA*2: Also, if that Boss had Armor you would not have been able to do that. Note that you can only spend one Power per hit unless you're in Power. in addition, anything that gains Iron off instances of damage (Underdogs, Taunting Style) would have an easier time.
ETA*3: and I completely m issed that it's going to be changed in any case. Whoops!
I bought the book after reading about it on a FB RPG group. Where can I download a character sheet to record all the info for my character ? That would be great to have one
My group uses this one https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xxjPiJPdKsZ-isJxND07FEIoLoWkn0DeaE5PJb1m... been very helpful.
Thanks a lot!
Access is restricted. You gotta set this to Anyone With the Link in the Share settings for us to be able to use it.
Whoops, there we go.
Potential Errata/FAQ Quandary: If a Wardancer takes Forbidden: Iron/Power. And spends a die to gain speed tokens. How would they translate?
My assumption: Half become iron, the rest become power, round up for one. (so a 5 would give 3 iron, 2 power)
Possibly: round off both (so a 5 would give 3 iron, 3 power)
Hope not: They both take the same majority half (5 gives 3 iron, 3 power, 2 speed)
Your assumption is correct, you would gain no Speed tokens and you would round up for only one of them. The "Movement" Action would be anything but.
Hello! Discovered this wonderful system recently, and began theorycrafting characters immediately!
I ran into a seeming contradiction between the rules and the advice, and wondered if you could help me with it?
So I was looking at making a Winterblossom fighter, and was considering Frozen Style. The advice there calls out Frozen Dance as a good combination - and thematically that seems great!
But then I read the rules on Grapple and Pull again, and from my read of them Frozen Dance is actually a terrible combo! I can't help but feel I'm likely missing or else misunderstanding something.
So Pull effects (in this case, both the Basic Grapple Action and the Pull added to Free Movement by Dance Form) are described on pg 9 as "each movement must bring them to a space closer to you".
The problem? Frozen Style has a Range of 1! So if someone is in Range, they can't get any closer, so I can't actually Pull them.
Based on the fact that you specifically reccomended Frozen Dance as a good combo, I feel like I must be missing or misunderstanding somewhere. Can you enlighten me? Thanks!
EDIT: Found a comment you made previously where you clarified that a Pull can move someone adjacent to you to another adjacent space, which is great for that part of Dance Form! I'm still confused as to whether the Pull resulting from Free Movement is wasted if I move out of adjacency with someone, however. Do I need to use this "adjacent pull" to keep them next to me for the entire process if I wish to dance my dance of weakness tokens, or can I actually drag them across the map? Thanks again!
You need to remain adjacent to them the entire time for your dance of weakness, yes. It is a little complicated but you can still drag them quite far - you don't have to pull them adjacent to you in the same direction you moved, so the two of you can swap sides as you cross the map together.
Hello! First, amazing project, my group been loving reading it and we gonna soon play a one shot.
Second!
Are you thinking in releasing an official character sheet? Be online or not, as fan-made goes https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xxjPiJPdKsZ-isJxND07FEIoLoWkn0DeaE5PJb1m... this one is what my group found. What are your thoughts on it?
There is now a fan-run Panic at the Dojo discord server, for anyone interested: https://discord.gg/zQfQUhAM6u
So counter attack from Reversal form. Does that mean you teleport to a enemy that attacked you regardless of distance but you have to place yourself within your stance range of them when you do teleport, or does it mean you can only teleport if that enemy is within your range first?
The first thing you said. It doesn't matter where they were when they hit you, it can still be triggered. Then, you teleport to any open space that will place your attacker within your Range
thanks again.
Since you're answering questions, I was wondering: does the Fused Flametongue ability only trigger once per turn, or is it once per turn per enemy? The ability could be read either way, and I'm not quite sure which one is the intent.
Once per turn, no matter how many enemies you hit with it.
Update, I have started my first fight.
Not very many turns in yet but I and one other player agree that this is one of the best combat systems we've touched.
It's simple but very interactive and fun.
I'm back with more questions!
This is such a quick game to set up and play that it's become a big hit, and as a result I've been getting a match in just about every night. I've ran enough fights at this point that my players and I are finding the balance we like, but there are still things we aren't sure about.
In Zen stance. When you gain a new shield and choose to replace your current shield, does it go into reserve, or do you discard it? The level 7 Zen ability gives you a 2 shield, then a 4. Half my players think that means you take the 2 and keep the 4 in reserve, or you willingly give up your 2 to have the 4 active immediately. the other think it means you can replace the 2 with the 4 and put the 2 in reserve.
Are teachers able to spend Inspired tokens on themselves if they hoard them till their next turn?
Do copies replace fog tokens and vice versa? We've been playing it that copies/walls/traps can't normally exist together, but that fog can exist on anything.
This is more of a balance observation with a related question. Vigilance Form is really good. A heal or token drop, a 1+-4+ for weakness tokens, and a 1+-4+ line of sight heal has made it probably the most disruptive form in our group. We've been talking about different ways to tone it down, including limiting the heal to range, having fog block line of sight to friendlies, or making it a smaller heal, like a flat 1 or 2. I was curious if you find it to be that strong in your games, and if so, what you might propose. Or, if maybe there is something obvious we might be missing.
And finally, my second and last balance thought. Wild style is hard to use on bosses. At a glance I thought it would let them sneak in extra turns for healing themselves or spreading around damage. In practice it doesn't trigger extra dice very often, and when it does it can't quite seem to make up the difference in damage, healing, or action economy other forms manage. The group has proposed having bosses gain the bonus dice differently, with 1d6 after their first health bar is gone, and an additional 1d6 after half or more of their health bars are gone, with the bonus die for special tokens remaining unchanged. I'm curious for your thoughts here as well. Do you find solo bosses should avoid Wild form? Do you have a fix you prefer?
Looking forward to the Erata, and happy battling.
If you replace your current shield with a new one while in Zen Form, the replaced shield goes in reserve. Zen Form never discards shields except by breaking them (or using them to pay for an action) or by changing off of Zen Form.
Teachers can inspire any ally, so yes, if they still have the tokens when their turn comes back around, they can use it on themselves.
In the current rules, yes, placing any other obstacle will override a copy or fog in that space. In the upcoming errata, Copies are treated much more like players, and can be on top of Rubble or Fog without issue. I didn't have a note for Fog, but no reason I can't add one - Fog should be allowed on top of Copies, Traps, or Rubble without issue.
Vigilance's Actions are getting a cost increase. I doubt it will stop being strong, but it will be less free.
I do have a fix for Wild Form actually. I found the ability inconsistent in practice, so I've changed two things about it: One, it does something other than give bonus action dice. It's small but useful - at the start of your turn you gain 1 of each Basic token. Two, it has 5 conditions that can be met to give bonus dice, although it can only give +3d6 even if you meet 4 or all 5 of them.
Thanks again for the quick answers. We have another game tonight, so these will be put to good use.
In the new errata are copies considered allies?
No, copies are not allies. They cannot be healed or hold tokens, so most of what you'd want to do with allies doesn't work anyway.
Makes sense thanks for the fast response though i do have another question if i activate follow my lead from my copy can i then follow my own lead as i am an ally?
So quick questions. Do you count as a valid target for your own abilities that target "Ally"? I imagine not since you have the "someone" version on other abilities.
And does Challenge stop you from using abilities that do things to yourself? Like are you unable to use Yell to gain power tokens or any other albitites that affect you yourself but not the enemy. Because I feel like me and my friend group may have massively misunderstood Challenge and made it more powerful than it actually is.
Oh and something else I thought up. Does Mastermind style bypass Challenge since you yourself can not preform actions and instead use your dice to make other people take actions for you?
In the description for Song Form it mentions that you always count as your own ally
ah, that helps with that part. Thanks.
1: Already answered, but you are your own ally. No benefit to targeting yourself with a pull or a push, but for giving tokens or healing, yes.
2: In the current version of the rules, any action with targets must include your Challenger. So, you can Yell, since Yell has no targets, but you couldn't use Stand Strong to heal yourself, because it does have targets and could target your Challenger.
In the upcoming errata, Challenge tokens' effects are changed to "All damage-dealing actions you perform must include your Challenger as a target", so actions like Stand Strong are unaffected by holding a Challenge token.
3: Yeah, you don't target anyone while in Mastermind style. You just walk around and shout orders. However, if an ally you control has a challenge token, you will need to consider that for the Action you make them do.
thanks, that helps a lot.
2. In the current rules (and it appears this wouldn't be so with future updates) are you able to "Put It Out" to remove a challenge token from yourself, since it doesn't target the enemy? I would think no and am unsure where to confirm this.
It also sounds as if the new erreta wouldn't cause this confusion. Just playing a support, and currently it seems like I can't use Song form properly if challenged and I must go aggro.
Additionally, is there a discord or anywhere else questions can be asked? I am super curious and would love to pick the minds of people who have the authority to rule over the system, or at least politely ask questions.
I'm going to pivot a bit from Aetherbard's question - in the upcoming errata, would you be able to remove Challenge tokens with Put It Out (either on yourself or an ally)? It feels like turning Challenge from a turn of tanking into a one-action tax is stronger than intended, since Challenge tokens can't stack in any way - an action tax is very strong, but still totally different mechanically from what an Angel, Reversal, or Zen stance might want - but at the same time, even in the current version Put It Out would be able to calm an ally down from a Challenge token.
This game looks amazing and I totally wanna give it a try. Question though, I know it says 3-5 players. Would the rules still work for 1 player and 1 DM?
Yes, absolutely. Give the one player multiple health bars so their character can stand up equal to the threat you throw their way.
ooh, okay. So like a 2:1 ratio would work. like, 2 health bars per 'opponent' ?
I'm relatively certain the game is balanced for the player side and enemy side to have an equal number of health bars. So, for example, if one player is up against two enemies, the player gets two bars while each enemy gets one. This would also give the player two turns per round.
In Reversal Form, If you still have actions at the start of your turn and you switch stances, are those actions kept or lost?
The numbers you hold would empty at the end of the turn, and you change stance at the start of the turn. So, any spare numbers from Reversal Form will linger on to be used in your next Stance. They are kept.
This game is super cool, and i'm really excited to run it with my group. I've got a few questions about stuff tho before i start, i dont wanna make any big mistakes.
Do chaos tokens need to be used on skills that equal exactly 4? if so, why is Ogre the odd demon out with no guaranteed way to use their chaos token?
Also, with the Bomb enemy type, it's listed that they're extremely dangerous, but I don't see how apply pressure is that strong of a blow-up move, the 1 weakness tokens the bombs apply at the start of their turns would go away the second the players connect with a hit right? Does the gm just need to hope the players mess up and stock themselves up with iron and power tokens?
Chaos tokens function as a 4 in your dice pool, so they can still be used for 1+, 2+, and 3+ actions, too, not just 4+. Ogre is intended to use this 4 on a Throw or Grapple, but can also use it on Watch Your Step just fine.
The Bomb's Reversal Form lets them take their Actions at any time. If a player in range EVER builds up tokens to do something, like a bunch of Speed tokens to run around, a bunch of Iron to block with, or a bunch of Power for a deadly crush, a Bomb can instantly punish them with an explosive Apply Pressure.
Alternatively, pair the bomb alongside a Flametongue or other Winter stance to really shove tokens on everyone for you. They're a Stooge, they are not meant to be used by themselves.
I've been having a lot of fun playing this game. Great job on this, it really is very cool. Below are some of the questions we've had at the table that we weren't quite able to suss out on our own:
The rules for traps contradict one another, with one version saying trap damage is triggered at the start of every turn, and another that it triggers at the end. Which should we use? If the former, would it happen before you pick your new stance?
Does armor apply to trap damage? If so does it apply to both instances of stepping into a trap, and lingering on a trap? Can Iron Tokens be spent on trap damage? There is a note about this under Volcanic, but I can't tell if that's a specific edge case or not.
There's a note under Puppet's Style about being able to spend actions to gain speed tokens if you are walked off of an edge at the start of your turn. Is that a special exception to how Puppet's Style works, or a more general rule that you can always spend actions on your turn to gain speed tokens and avoid falls? If the latter, does that mean someone in a Patient/Reversal stance can do the same off turn with their one action? And in a related question, could you use an action to save someone else from going over an edge with a pull mechanic if you have an action handy? The former seems like it might be specific to Puppet's, but the latter we've been back and forth about in my group.
When a character with Wild Form is Taken Out, do they get their extra dice while rolling up numbers for another player using the Heroic Spirit rule? Under Judgment Style it states that abilities turn off while unconscious, so we were unsure.
Can Volcanic Dancer generate a bunch of speed tokens, then just zoom across the field creating a line of fire behind them and dragging a person through it for tons of trap damage? We ruled yes, but this one also brought up the question of whether armor should protect universally from trap damage. We had been playing that it didn't up until then, when Volcanic Dancer was turning numbers on the die into 1 to 1 speed tokens, that were then 1 to 1 damage.
(Edited to add one more)
Trickster style allows you to spend any basic tokens as iron tokens. Does that include for paying the token cost of abilities, or only for reducing damage? Does the focused version of the Trickster ability let you spend tokens like Burning and Weak to do the same?
1: Trap damage is supposed to be End of Turn or when you are moved into it. I will try to find and remove wherever it states Start of Turn instead.
2: Armor blocks 1 damage from all damage sources, including Traps. Iron tokens can be spent on any damage source, up to 2 tokens per source, so yes they can reduce Trap damage.
3: It is a general rule that if you have Speed tokens, you can spend them to escape an Edge you are moved onto. It is a specific note in Puppet Style because Puppet Shadow and Puppet Reversal are one of the few ways to move someone off an edge at the start of their own turn, before they can take any Actions. So, I added the clause that they can immediately spend an action die to use the Basic Action Movement to gain the Speed tokens needed to escape, because otherwise this is an extremely cheesy way to get a ringout. lt happens after they roll their action dice and after they had missed the chance to pass them off with Heroic Spirit, but before they could spend them to do anything, so it was a turn skip combo.
4: Yes, Wild Form is excellent for passing along Heroic Spirit for this reason. Abilities you apply to OTHERS deactivate while you are Taken Out, but still apply to yourself - this is how Vigilance Form can wake you back up from zero HP.
5: Volcanic Dance can indeed deal a ton of damage by dragging someone behind you, although there are two important things to note: first, Iron tokens can stop any forced movement, even Dance's pull, and second, Traps can only deal damage once per turn, so you need to only drag them through new Traps each time. Also, Armor negates this strategy entirely, as mentioned above.
6: The Trickster abilities can be used to pay for Iron token actions, yes. And yes , a Focused Trickster can spend Burning or Weakness tokens to block attacks or to pay for Iron token actions.
Thanks a ton, you rock.
Dance form seems odd. It allows you to pull people 1 space if they are in range, does that mean you can pull adjacent targets into another adjacent space or does this ability only work if you have range of at least 2?
Frozen style has range 1, bit has a tip to pair with dance to grapple enemies to you. Grapple targets someone in range and the rules for pulling states "... each space must be closer to you than the previous." so grappling/pulling is impossible at range 1.
You can pull adjacent targets into another adjacent space.
Grapple is being fixed in the errata to target one enemy within X spaces, and pulls them up to 3 spaces.
Oh, this is good to know! I built a character with Frozen Dance, but I was under the impression the idea was that you could interrupt each step of the Pull using Free Movement to effectively drag the target behind you. This interpretation makes a lot more sense, though.
Mistake on Page 121:
"Frantic Heroes are made by picking three Archetypes, and taking one Style from each."
Where is the mistake? That is correct.
Unless you mean how one of the Styles can be from outside your Archetypes, which is still true.
That's the one- when I first read through the book, I used that page for reference and missed the outside-archetype Style until it was pointed out to me elsewhere.
i finally caved and bought the PDF
i am tempted to try and design a character sheet and put it and possibly the pdf with permission onto tabletop simulator
There's a very decent Google Sheets character sheet that I've used to run my games. May be a useful starting point.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gi9W5akg_14MGLne_LIWg2KVeO8keRvxMuVfWQ7l...
Hi! I was prepping for a test game of this with some folks who are interested in trying out PATD and as I was looking through the premade bosses I had a question. Where is the nonstandard range on Hollow Queen's Vampire Drill Stance coming from? As far as I can tell, Vampire style is range 1 and One-Two form doesn't seem to change range at all. Is there some other source that's moving that from range 1 to range 2-5 that I'm missing?
Oh that has a very simple answer - I copy-pasted incorrectly, it is supposed to be range 1.
Got it! Thanks for the response!
Does Armor stack?
Iron form has different rules for iron token. It says you can reduce movement by 1 per token, and doesn't state the 2 token limit per hit.
Some actions do not specify "With in range" such as Irons Contain Pulling choice and Rally's group up. These actions almost imply that they would effect targets you can see, as Rally doesnt work well without control and Iron can't pull unless it has greater than range one. However under Target rules it states "Targets must be within Range, unless stated otherwise."
Armor does not stack, you either have it or you do not.
Iron Tokens reduce both damage and forced movement, and they have the 2 token limit per hit. If the reminder text under Iron Form differs from that, use these values instead, and I'll fix it in the patch notes.
That is an oversight, both of those examples should be "you can see"
If you use an ability like Shockwave and multiple Stooges are in range, they only take damage once, correct? Since they're one foe?
No, Stooges are exceptionally vulnerable to area attacks. Each Stooge is a valid target, so if you hit 3 with a shockwave, they lose 3 HP from their shared health bar.
Dropping the Google Sheets-based character sheet I've been using for play.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gi9W5akg_14MGLne_LIWg2KVeO8keRvxMuVfWQ7l...
I pair it with Roll20 or another 'simple' VTT to handle maps, tokens, and HP, but this is really useful for character-building, especially for NPCs.
Edit: Now with tutorial tab.
ayo, just came across this thanks to the sugarpunch video. can't wait to buy it but in the mean time I've been working on a TTS mod for me and my friends to play. I really hope this game blows up!!!
This is EXTREMELY cool, I'm a big fan of putting stances and abilities onto cards.
Justice as Blaster is amazing.
Looking forward to this! Keep us posted!
Are you planning on putting this anywhere to share it? This looks REALLY good.
I've been making very slow progress because im busy with some life stuff but i'll see if I can put it on the steam workshop when im done :)
NOTE: There is an errata coming soon, with updates to a lot of the game as well as Advancement Rules. These patch notes will be available for free.
The Advancement Rules can be found here, for now: https://pastebin.com/RtT2mNdQ
Part of me is curious about Focused Phantom or the Teacher Elder style. Do they still have access to all of the other stances when there are more than three stances? (I admit I am foolishly trying to prepare the character sheets I am building for Foundry for material that is still in development. I take full responsibility for this hubris)
Yes, as you gain more Unique Actions, the Phantom abilities and the Elder ability gain more options.
Please join the 6FU discord so I can give you your due kudos!!
hello there, just like everyone else I came from SugerPunch video. I gonna get the game soon but I have a question. I know from other reviews there isn't a character advancement per say. but is there any way I could hack some kind advancement system into the game?
If you scroll down a bit, there is a post from liberigothica that includes an image that has a preliminary advancement system in the works. The message is from a year ago so you might have to scroll for a little bit.
I've made a pastebin for the Advancement rules: https://pastebin.com/RtT2mNdQ
This will be in a patch notes update, coming soon for free to everyone who already has the game.
I had a question concerning frantic wardancer with the wild style. I have thought of a few ways that wild style using two forms might work, but I wanted confirmation (and if it is something else entirely, please let me know).
1. You still only pick three forms at character creation, but when you use wild style, you use two of them.
2. You pick four forms at character creation, but two of them are paired and always used with wild style.
3. You pick four forms at character creation, and you can chose any two when you are using wild style.
The version in the book uses option 1, but I do have that in the upcoming errata as:
When you pick Forbidden Style on a Frantic character, choose one Form. That Form is always attached to Forbidden Style, along with a second Form chosen when you make your stance during your turn.
Thank you! I am working on building a functional character sheet in Foundry for some friends and I to use for online sessions (drop down menus for selecting things, fields auto populating with relevent info, etc). I am being meticulous and trying to include all of the niche cases like Phantom and Forbidden style.
I hope to be able to share the sheets on Foundry once I am done for others to use.
Absolutely, share them far and wide! Anything to help folks play is great in my book.
I’m looking out for it dude, I can’t wait to use it!
This is an awesome game, but one infinite I spotted was Frantic Phantom, One-Two maybe Blaster form, Brawling Style, and Flamethrower from Incinerator. Only works if they're against a wall, but still. Would appreciate if it was in the Errata.
Thank you for letting me know! This is the second (possibly third) infinite that's been found with Frantic Phantom, actually, so I already had an errata for it:
Once during this turn, you can use any Unique Action you know, from among all your Styles and Forms. You must still pay its Cost.
Your Unique Actions have their cost reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1+ or 2 tokens) during this turn.
As so many have said before me: This game is incredible! As a Magic player, I get the same feeling I get from deck building, as a TTRPG! Hosting games soon =)
To add to the Infinite topic: Fused Phantom + Elder Style + Song Form can Sing Along to give itself a 4 Action Die, and loop the song for infinite Basic Tokens for themselves and their team.
Just like in MtG, cost reductions can be abused, haha!
Hi, this game looks awesome (discovered via Sugarpunch video)! Do you intend to release an errata-ed/updated version? If I buy the game now, and there's an update in the future, do I get the update for free or do I have to buy again the updated version?
From the dev's Twitter, the errata document will most likely be available for free.
https://x.com/Veliministriari/status/1798774627264761959
Thanks!
Hi, I was wondering if there was a discord or forum or something to ask questions about the system. A friend and I tried a quick sample fight, and his character was using the Focused Phantom Archetype. With it he had a Vortex Power stance and a Puppet Control stance, and it seems like you can, on turn 1, simply set up a Black Hole and instantly ring out someone by using Pull the Strings to move them into the "Edge" created by Black Hole. Is this correct or does the opponent get a turn to be allowed to use Speed tokens to get out of the Black Hole?
In a 1v1 scenario, I'd give both sides the Big Boss Comeback rule, regardless of whether they're actual Bosses or players, in which case they are removed from play temporarily, but not Taken Out.
In a 2v2 scenario and above, the target is immediately dunked into the Edge and Taken Out, but their allies may Rescue them to get them out on the following player turn, benefit from Heroic Spirit so their turn isn't wasted, etc.
I haven't played much with Edge-based styles, so I can't tell you more.
are there gm-less or solo rules, or how does the game present that setup?
No, the rules are incredibly light on the roleplaying side; so it would be relatively easy to run solod brawler matches, though you'd need to create a deck or tactical rules for the goons you brawl against. Elsewise it'll feel like you're playing training mode in a tournament fighter.
Saw the youtuber SugarPunch talk about this, and half way in I was sold.
This system just seemed way to perfect to not get, i'll be running it before too long with friends of mine.
Also came here due to that video
when the mechanics speak for themselves that well how can you not?
Yeah, I was thinking this sounds fun.
Then he ran the fight, and I was like "Well, I am buying this right now!"
just order it on DriveThruRPG because I want the fisical copy
Exact same reason, even went and grabbed the hard cover with the PDF. Can't wait for it to arrive and sink my teeth into it.
Given the games general lack of artwork I went for a paperback, hope you're getting fun out of it - my houserule: for Combat - Have a 'turn zero' where in initiative order players add their characters to the grid and choose an opening stance. I think of it like the opening footsies in capcom fighters where players can move but not attack during "ROUND...1..."
Same here, his demonstration of the mechanics did a lot to sell me on it. I'll definitely be grabbing a physical copy.
Same, went to DTRPG to get a paperback physical alongside the PDF - only $4 more (and shipping) that way.
Also came here thanks to SugarPunch video. ^^
is there an italian translation by anybody? 😅 Anyway: i have the physical book and i thank you for it.
Sorry, there are no translations available of Panic at the Dojo
thanks anyway! (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧💖🍀
Yo! Glad to see the game getting more attention (and looking forwards to the errata pass!).
Our group had a couple of assorted rule questions and comments after play- we made spot calls as needed, but we wanted to raise them as concerns/questions for errata;
1. Question about whether 0 damage counts as damage (answered below).
2. Can you spend any number of iron tokens on one hit (suggested by Armored Style, page 69), or just 1-2 (Glossary, page 280)?
3. How does 'priority' work? If someone wants to take an action during someone else's turn (ex. a token action), can they take as many token actions as they like before that person can take a Simple Action or use Free Movement? Can the person who's turn it is interrupt with their own token action? We generally settled on 'one side has a chance to take an action, then the other side has a chance to take an action'.
4. If a Copy moves into a space with an obstacle (particularly a Trap) using movement, what happens? Do they just coexist?
5. How do actions with an X in their cost interact with cost reduction (Elder, Phantom)? Can we treat them as a 'tiered action' with effectively infinite tiers (one for each possible die roll? Edit: Looked at Waiting Game- I'm going to guess they aren't affected by cost reduction, lol
6. This is a really goofy edge case, but a player actually did this- if someone takes Forbidden Power/Iron can they just not move? Is it split 50%/25%/25%? Our GM ruled that every 2 Speed Tokens effectively generated 1 Power and 1 Iron and 1 Speed (they were quite strong in combat, but it felt pretty fair overall- we had a strong party)
7. Play feedback- Necromancer making copies anywhere in line of sight felt like it could have very easily been overwhelming in combination with a mobile foe due to giving it effectively infinite range- the damage was low impact compared to the ability of the Boss to summon a copy at the start of their turn and then menace us at long range 'for free'. This might be working as intended, but it doesn't feel like the horde playstyle suggested by Necromancer.
8. When a character has a Copy take an action, my understanding is that this means 'you are taking the action, but from the position of the Copy', e.g. the player could, for example, spend Power tokens on behalf of the Copy, or discard their Challenge token if the Copy's action dealt damage to your Challenge target- is this correct?
9. Can you hit a single Mook foe multiple times with stuff like a 3+ Shockwave or Whirlwind if they have multiple bodes in range?
10. Play feedback- Challenge tokens are crazy impactful, and can virtually shut down Song Warriors, which may be completely unable to break through defensive walls or even get in range quickly. Fun, but felt on the edge of being an OP mechanic, with certain builds and situations making it nearly impossible to take any action- when everyone's challenged by one Bring It On!, nobody can even Put It Out! to clear a challenge.
Hello! Picked up Panic at the Dojo after hearing about it via, of course, OSP. Glad to have found your work.
It seems right up my alley, and well-designed: lots of opportunity for interesting decisionmaking in fights and while building a character; and a clean and clear approach to framing those fights. Almost feels like a board game, especially with how symmetrically fights are designed. Several of my friends are also interested, so I may actually get to run the game!
So, caveat that I've read through but not played it yet, I have some questions of intent/clarification:
1. Song Form's details says that you are always your own ally; does this hold everywhere? e.g. can a Teacher can use Inspired tokens and '3+: Watch Closely' on themselves?
2. When Phantom or Elder Style reduces the cost of an action, does that include reducing the cost of gates beyond the first (e.g. would Sing Along be reduced from '1+ or 4+ or 6+' to '1+ or 3+ or 5+'?
3. When you Sing Along without being in Song Form (e.g. via Focused Phantom or Elder Style), you don't have a song token type selected. Is the intent that you simply can't pick the 'gain 2 tokens' mode, or something else?
4. Are Chaos tokens intended to be usable for any action (i.e. as an action pool '4'), or specifically for actions with a cost or gate of exactly '4+' (and no lower)?
5. If something like a Chaos token ("used exclusively by the X") is stolen (e.g. via Syphon Style's '2+ or 6+: Power Converter'), can the recipient use it for its native function?
6. Can a Teacher use multiple Inspired tokens in the same turn?
There's also a few things I've spotted that may be infinite loops; either I've misread something, or they would be good targets for errata:
- Fused or Frantic Phantom + Song Form + Elder Style
If Phantom and Elder Style's cost reductions stack, that would mean the free 4 action from Sing Along would be enough to meet the 6+ gate of another Sing Along, repeating the process and accumulating resources.
- Chaos token + Motivating Style's '4+ You Can Do It!'
If you copy a chaos token, you can use You Can Do It again by expending that chaos token, healing/moving/etc. as you repeat the process. If you can't target yourself, this can still be done with two characters that are fused Demon/Teachers. Inspired tokens could work similarly, but are less egregious since it isn't guaranteed.
- Frantic Phantom + Blaster Form + Vampire Style, using Flare
Distracting Style's '1+ or 2 basic tokens: Flare' can give two enemies a weakness token while using Blaster Form; if you're also using Vampire Style, that would give you two power tokens if I'm reading correctly, which can repeat the process to give those enemies an unlimited number of weakness tokens.
I do really love this system, already; that's why I'm engaging with it so much. Thank you for making it :)
While not an infinite exactly, Brawling Zen is tremendously difficult to take down except by specific approaches.
When your shield is broken by damage from a foe, you gain one Power token from Brawling, then Zen deals 1 damage back to them. If you don't spend Power tokens on this hit, you gain a second Power token, meaning you can immediately put up a new shield with Tough It Out, arguably before the next damage action comes in.
Traps, Crush, and Armor/Iron tokens can counter this to some extent, but it's pretty difficult to break otherwise.
With a bit of setup (an ally with Dance, the Found an Opening bonus, or access to Chaos tokens), a Frantic Phantom with access to Patient style can gain access to Waiting Game outside their turn without being restricted by Patient's 'one action per turn' limit, letting them take it an unlimited number of times before cashing it out as one big infinite-power action (useful for, ex. Movement to generate infinite Speed for some sort of token action).
Edit: Missed that shield damage does overflow to HP! Whoops!
You can only have one shield active per turn, a new one will not become active until the end of turn.
From Brawling Form:
Brawling Zen can rebuild its Shields as they break. While inactive Shields don't normally become active until the end of the turn, you can use Tough It Out after your active Shield breaks to immediately have a new active Shield.
So, asking for clarification, does the 'default bonus' mean that everyone in the team gets +2 max HP, and this can be replaced with only one person getting one of the other bonuses?
that is correct.
Working on an errata document + a progression system free bonus PDF, but until I get that done, here is the basic progression system:
I like it! Reads as sensible and appropriately simple and elegant.
First things that jump to mind:
Focused Phantoms get a *lot* of options when they get a fused archetype; including Waiting Game, which breaks when you can get it without the restrictions imposed by Patient Style, Elder Style, or Frantic Phantom.
Focused or Frantic Phantoms will generally scale extremely well with extra stances.
Frantic heroes' expanding combinatorial versatility is offset by not getting as many archetype abilities at once, which I find very elegant.
A lot of potent combos using the extra archetype (e.g. Focused Punk + Fused Winterblossom) are things that a cooperating party would already be able to do, which helps control the scope of things.
Looks good!
Does 0 damage count as damage? One-Two saying you can use it to clear 6 Weakness tokens suggests yes, but Knockdown Style suggests that reducing damage to 0 with Armor and Iron means it doesn't count as damage.
0 damage does not count as "damage," no. One-Two is going to have a written in exception in the errata I am working on, something like: "When you deal damage to an enemy with an Action, hit them again for 1 more damage. Even if the initial damage is reduced to zero by Armor, Iron tokens, or Weakness tokens, you still get this extra 1-damage hit."
Thank you!
I know this is an old one, but might it be best to word One-Two's ability differently just to avoid confusion?
Something like "Each time you hit an enemy with an Action that deals damage, hit them again for 1 damage?"
Not sure if that fixes it exactly, but figured I'd share my idea.
In the upcoming patch, One-Two's Ability will read:
After each damage-dealing Action you perform, you may deal 1 damage to each target of that Action.
So would this intentionally no longer synergize with say Rushdown from Relentless Style?
Yeah, it only adds one more hit to the total, instead of giving a second hit for each hit.
My play group is starting to get into the game, and there is a weird rule I cant wrap my brain around. If you are Taken out, do you still get to change stances when it comes time for your heroic spirit turn? It seems weird that you could swap into bleeding/ Zombie and just negate threat by damage that way.
Even more so when something like Angel/ Cavalry doesn't have access to that .
Is there some kind of vulnerability I am not seeing here?
Yes, you do get to change stances (second paragraph, page 31). Of note is that the Vigilance stance heals itself at the start of its turn, meaning that all archetypes can spec into the ability to stand themself back up.
A special note for Angel- as mentioned on page 61, the Angel Ability lets them get back up even when damaged, since it heals them.
The primary counter, as I see it, is to avoid focusing damage on foes who will just regenerate off your damage, or by 'wasting' their healing by only dealing small amounts of damage to them - you win by getting everyone to 0 HP, in whichever order that involves.
I ran a session today, and I had a lot of trouble with Stooges- mainly, how start-of-turn effects work with them, and how tokens are shared- I had a group of Zombies and a The Light (angel/song warrior); I couldn't tell whether the Zombies each generated Iron tokens from their build, gained one token for one of them, etc. A similar question came up for The Light's start-of-turn ability to grant tokens to all allies at once.
Stooges hold tokens as a single unit. An effect that gives 1 Iron token to all allies would only give one Iron token to each separate group of Zombies. They have just the one token pile and any Zombie in the unit may spend tokens from that pile.